what size lionel transformer do i need

They're controlled with a simple handheld remote control and run on easy-to-connect plastic track. Right now I am running 8 motors on one KW [the new one I found] and got the old one for reserve. $2799. With multiple switches, lights, power supplies and more all concentrated in a small space, color coding and neatness pay off. The larger transformers could operate up to four trains independently. It is also a good idea to run your accessories off of a separate power supply and wire grid from the trains themselves. Lionel, LLC continued to manufacture and market trains and accessories in O scale under the Lionel brand and S gauge under the American Flyer brand. To my knowledge, you should have no compatibility issues with a pure sine wave track feed with any major brand locomotive. It was a symbiotic relationship, the engineer designed it and the tech built it, then they both troubleshot it. Because of this, like with lighting and accessories, your power supply and wiring for switch machines do not need to be as robust. Atlas and Bachmann have the same transformers with 80 watt outputs as well that get good reviews and would be appropriate for a smaller layout. If your track joints aren't near perfect or if you should want to split that loop into two blocks, you'll double the voltage drop. I have noticed that my old transformers do not work well or not work at all with newer electronic whistle tenders. If you fried a wire going to the track it may not be a transformer problem. If youre looking for Lionel transformer comparisons, youve come to the right place. But Lionel now produces four Track Expansion Sets, which expand this basic loop into something more exciting. I have a post war ZW and a KW and a Z, all three are good transformers, just meant for differant needs. Today Lionel includes the same basic track oval in all starter sets8 36-inch diameter curve sections, 3 10 straight track sections, and 1 10 straight terminal section, which create this layout: Until recently, to add to this layout, you would need to buy separate straight, curved, and other track sections and wing it in creating a larger setup. Most two-rail track systems use direct current (DC). Reverse the above if planning to run mostly Lionel and go with the Lionel command system, either the full Legacy system or the upcoming CAB-1L and just add a Track Power Controller and a cable to run most MTH engines in conventional with the Lionel systems. The 1044 is just a 1033 in a . Lionel has a new 180 watt transformer due out soon that will be a nice upgrade. There was a video by Mike Reagan from Lionel about better smoke output from a chopped wave transformer, but the pure sine wave didn't cause any operational issues. We feature Lionel, American Flyer, MTH, Atlas O, Williams Trains, K-Line, Weaver Models, and more. Safety first. There isn't a one-size-fits-all solution, so you'll need to consider what you want to do and measure your options accordingly. The circuit breaker should trip with a click and the transformer should go dead. Model train power falls into one of three categories. It would be advantageous if OGR magazine would put an article together comparing the major manufacturers transformers output waveform compatibility/ incompatibilitywith the various manufacturer's locomotives - Atlas O, Weaver, 3rd Rail, MTH , Lionel etc and conventional , DCS , TMCC, Legacy command control. The first is the traditional or classic size, which are the cars that match starter sets. The backside of a control panel can turn into a "rat's nest" of wiring very quickly. Expanding the basic oval from the set is the quickest way to add more interest to your trains. Atlas and Bachmann have the same transformers with 80 watt outputs as well that get good reviews and would be appropriate for a smaller layout. Some of the variables are obvious, others not so much. Also, I found an old guide printed by lionel on power requirements. David, looking at your layout I notice there is a two rail and a three rail ? If you're experiencing problems with your wiring due to humidity, for example, you are going to face even greater issues with the trains and tracks themselves. This has the added advantage that Lionel TMCC (command control) will operate correctly. Turn on the throttle, then short the A and U posts (in the case of Lionel) or variable and base posts (in the case of Flyer) with a screwdriver or a piece of wire for a maximum of five seconds. http://www.lccuk.org.uk/lccuk Regards Nick Save Reply Quote N Nick12DMC Registered Are you running command or conventional? Get the Classic Toy Trains newsletter delivered to your inbox twice a month, Calculating transformer size for layout size. --I need a station for the train to stop at. Sign-up for email today! Lionel uses red and black (red always for the center rail, black for the two outer rails) as a standard in its instructions and most 3-Rail O Gauge layouts are probably wired this way. Plug one of your transformers into each Fixed in. The motor takes electricity through a small wire attached to a metal wheel that rests on the middle rail underneath. Lionel Multi-Car Freight Sets + More MTH Halloween! There is the 12030 Figure-8 set, which along with the track included in your set makes your layout into this: Figure-8s are great because they create a crossing, giving the appearance of a railroad junction, they break up the oval, and the parts to create them are relatively cheap. Sell Your Trains Using a Live Auction House. I'm guessing the MTH Z1000 is around $100 and the other suggestions are much more expensive. The whistle requires more power than the outfits that don't have it. You have pretty much pointed up the major problem, everything is different. Below weve listed these transformers in numerical order in the Numerical Index. Older transformers I had this issue with are RW, 1033, KW, ZW.newer transformers were all made by MTH. The Lionel ZW has four sets of posts and six controls. I'll take this information and run with it to help get me started. HO trains are very durable and are made with high quality parts and pieces to ensure the longevity of the Lionel train brand! A lot of people are using the MTH Z1000's who have smaller layouts while others have moved up to the MTH Z4000. But after a little while, you will likely want your train to do more, and youll start thinking along these lines: --It sure would be neat if it did more than run in a circle. The iconic and legendary 270-wattLionel ZW was the biggest and best transformer Lionel made in the postwar era. Any of the below transformers from M.T.H. This means that you will have about.5 volt drop if your train draws 5 amperes. Stop it with your hand to full stall, and it goes up to four amps--sixty watts--trying to pull. If you like, tell us more about yourself. It has FasTrack connectors on one end and O Gauge track pins on the other. The old transformer is not really the problem, the problem is the supply wire, particularly under heavyload (or derailment without the benefit of a quicker breaker). Lots of good tips for building a layout from two of the most experienced people in the hobby. This will spread the load of your lighted passenger consist across the two transformers. For a passenger train with lighted cars, getting a little more power isnt a bad idea. A large number of the Lionel Collectors Club UK use this set up to good effect. The preferred choice for wiring control panels is telephone or telecommunications wire. Actually the choice of transformer is secondary to the choice of control systems since you can operate O gauge trains with most any good modern transformer. If you want a transformer with power to spare go get a ZW! I have a basement that offers an 18" concrete ledge that goes around the entire perimeter of the house that lends itself perfectly to a neat layout. 40-500 50 Watt AC Transformer - 50 Watt AC transformer suitable for . All power supplies will be rated for volts, amps, and watts. Lionel and other train manufacturers have worked hard to make adding to a set easy, affordable, and fun. That means there are lots of them. Big Ed Railroad Tycoon All Lionel transformer comparisons should start here. Adding lights to buildings, streets, and other scenic accessories usually do not require anywhere near the amperage demand of the trains themselves. All Lionel transformer comparisons should start here. A 10 amp breaker and 16 gauge wire would be appropriate for an old ZW. To determine the required transformer VA, multiply the secondary voltage by the required amperes: For example, VA=Volts x Amperes or 28V x 1.2 amperes = 33.6 VA. To determine the maximum transformer current, divide the transformer VA by transformer secondary voltage. The larger transformers could operate up to four trains independently. Lionel developed and perfected its model designs and layouts during the Pre-War Era (1901-1942). --The O Gauge Railroading Primer, by Christopher Ritchie. [:)]. Make sure you are getting the right type of power supply for your layout. Lionel CW80's can be found for around $50 at Greenberg and other train shows. This is why my wife loves me so. The next evolution in model train control is radio- or bluetooth-controlled trains. I am assuming that your starter set came with either o27, brown ties, or 031, black ties, track and it runs well as is. The new Lionel ZW-L is getting a lot of good reviews and is a very powerful transformer for most layouts. Another classic is the Automatic Gateman. First, a few general notes about choosing wire. By clicking Accept All Cookies, you agree to the storing of cookies on your device to enhance site navigation, analyze site usage, and assist in our marketing efforts. Serious or fatal injuries may result. Here are some simple definitions for these electrical terms: Most power supplies will be labeled as to the scales they are meant to handle. I've had light 'arguments' with fellow hobbyists claiming most of their fellows are predominantly technically - oriented vs. what I would consider is a more liberal artsy approach - any way it's a great balance. Ryan Kunkle is a nationally recognized professional model train expert and writer with over 25 years of experience. * NOTE: We do not recommend loading a transformer above 80% of its KVA rating. For most layouts, and most scales, Number14 stranded wire will work best for your bus. Accessories often interact with the train, such as a crossing gate that lowers as the train passes. The transition section (#12040) allows you to connect conventional O Gauge track to FasTrack. --Build a Better Toy Train Layout, by John Grams and Dick Christianson. Lionel Ready-to-Play is a large sized train that's made to be affordable and easy-to-use for both kids and adults alike. The transformer, when operated at the lower frequency, may . I am currently running about 40 bulbs, which at 0.1 A each total 4 amps! Max Watts on one TIU is 720W. (NEW/LIKE NEW), running TMCC And DCS engines with DCS handheld, terrible crash in Greece, multiple fatalities, Its.Public Delivery Track ..NEWSpecial run corner, Improving Appearance of 0-gauge Tubular Track. Everything you need to get going is included, its reliable, and setup is usually very easy. Number 24 to Number20 wire will all work with most layouts. 5 years of Classic Toy Trains at your fingertips! Transformer sizing for new systems I don't want to buy a lot more track, but then find out the transformer is too weak, if that make sense. A starter set is the best way to start with the train hobby. The Lionel 1033 is a great choice for small or medium-sized layouts. Dave, you're so eloquent and inspiring - my undergraduate degree was in American Studies, now I'm in charge of among other things all our college's technology - also self-taught.. Hello All: Re: Dave Farquhar, Dave you left out sense of humor Regards Steve. Don't just discard your starter set pack, though. Choosing a selection results in a full page refresh. A bigger transformer is better and always looks nicer too! A solid and stranded wire of the same gauge will be the same total diameter. My question is this in order that this doesn't happen again what type of transformer would you recommend? In most cases, stranded wire is preferred because the multiple threads provide more conductivity and flexibility. For a classic setup of a single freight train running on a 48 sheet of plywood, a 90 watt Lionel 1033 or 1042 is an excellent choice. . Starter sets almost always include a power supply along with the track and train. If you add feeders to the track at the farthest point (remember to get the same wire to the same rails) you will not slow down at the farthest point. THE BASICS "O", "S", "HO". The KW has constant voltage outputs for accessories, the ZW don't have that feature just four handles for supplying power to four tracks or accessories if you like, both have whistle & direction feature. Lionel made a lot of other transformers over the years. If you are using only LEDs for lighting, you could get away with even less. What about removing flanges from diesel wheels? American Flyer Trains were made in several gauges. --Toy Train Collecting and Operating, by John Grams. Then power every other one with one of your smaller transformers. Take the hint. While most of the American Flyer products are re-issues using old Gilbert tooling from the 1950s, the O scale equipment is a combination of new designs and reissues. OTTS Founder If you found this post informative or helpful, please share it! This set also includes an uncoupling track section, which will disconnect cars from one another at the touch of a button, and a bumper, which keeps cars from rolling off the end of the track. 10 Easy Ways to Improve a Christmas Train Display, Compatibility of Different Model Train Brands, How to Build and Wire Reverse Loops for Model Trains, Wiring a Model Railroad for Block Operation, Wire Gauge Standards for Model Train Layouts, Model Train Track Grades and Maximum Grade Issues. I'm sure I'll need more help along the way, so I'll be checking back in with more silly questions! The 190-wattLionel KWwas the second biggest and second best transformer of the postwar era. God bless TCA 05-58541 Benefactor Member of theNRA, Member of the American Legion, Retired Boss Hog of Roseyville , KC&D Qualified. --Heck, watching one train run is great, Ill bet TWO would be even more fun! 24v, 120v, 208v, 240v, 480v, and 600v). For a classic setup of a single freight train running on a 48 (or smaller) sheet of plywood, a 90-watt Lionel 1033 or 1044 is an excellent choice. Just connect the jumper wires to the same connections on the back of your transformer as your original connections, and make sure that the wires are not crossed. RemembertheVeterans. In the middle range, Lionel made a lot of other transformers. Lionel is also introducing a new 180 watt transformer to accompany the 80 watt CW 80. Here are a couple examples: As you can see, with a bit of experimentation and imagination, numerous different track layouts can be created. At auction, Lionel train sets, pieces, and accessories can sell for a few hundred dollars or for a few thousand dollars, depending on the rarity and condition of the piece. While better starter sets usually include a more robust transformer, as a general rule the power pack supplied with your starter set is just thata start. Will get a Z4000 one day [this summer probably, unless I find a good deal on an older ZW] just to say I have one. Most feeders will be only a few inches long so the smaller diameter wire will not be a problem. For Lionel power the 45 watts is good for a 4 by 8 as a rule of thumb to compensate poor track you just use more feeders. But if you already have a 1034 and dont need a whistle button, go ahead and use it. And of course, Lionel also makes lots of figures to populate your town. I know this has nothing to do with Mike's original problem but is more of a reflection on Trainman's reply. A while back, approximately 2 weeks ago while running two very lengthy loops of fast track an old transformer nearly fried (50 years old) one of my wires that I was running to my Fastrac. When running a mixed bag train show with new and old trains of mixed types such as Loinel and MTH which is better? Trainz carries a variety of books that build upon the information listed above. Now, I diconnected that old dinosaur and connected two separate smaller ones which weren't powerful enough to run my Amtrack MTH trains. It will require a minimum of 108' of track just to do a basic rectangle before I add any switches, etc. Daniel Defense firearms, parts and accessories, http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=9670, http://www.modeltrainforum.com/album.php?u=2334, 14X16 Switching style [url]http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=8241, https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCkMHvbckuBLo3pJN1FGE1Gg. I bet they would be great for running lights and unloading the main transformer. Regardless of your scale, all model railroad switch machines fall into one of two categories, a slow-motion electric motor or a "twin coil" relay. If you plan to add a second loop for another train in the near future, the 14198 would be a wise investment. All of the transformers that have more than 90 Watts are in great demand today as more collectors are operating retro-layouts. Theres nothing inherently wrong with them, though I would shy away from the smaller transformers that are less than 75 watts, including the modern CW-40. Electric Trains make great power supplies, depending on usage, on a DCS controlled layout. The Lionel 1033 can be used for small or medium-sized layouts. Also, you must have a built-in circuit breaker to prevent a short circuit from causing permanent damage to the power supply or the trains. Our transformer sizing calculator allows you to obtain the minimum single or three-phase transformer size required based on the load you need to power. Find 500+ popular train rides, museums, and railroad vacation destinations in the U.S and Canada! Transformers are designed to fail if a short in the secondary or control side occurs. It is not uncommon to see 50-year-old transformers still going strong on a model railroad. So, if you want to connect eight landscape lights to an electronic transformer, and the lights use 20 watts each, you would need a 160 watt transformer. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. (Electrical Contractor with dear old Dad for 30 years) Regards Steve. Enter your e-mail address to subscribe to this blog and receive notifications of new posts by e-mail. M3103. A: According to Lionel's head of customer service, on the underside of their CW80 transformers, starting in late 2009, the vendor applied a sticker that states "QC50" on it. ransformers were issued by Lionel thoughout the Post War period. The chances are that little power supply isn't going to keep the train running over a full mile, however. There have been issues with chopped waveform transformers, i.e. That could also be the reason the other transformers don't work. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. A locomotive on a mile-long loop will draw as many amps as it does on a 4x8 platform. What size Lionel transformer do I need? Tales From Harmon Shops, WTB: LIONEL AUTRORACKS SPECIFICALLY SOUTHERN,GRAND TRUNK,BNSF,FERROMEX. Yes, but the train will probably run too fast, depending on the output voltage of the transformer. For safety reasons, the batteries were soon replaced by a 110 volt transformer. Many manufacturers assemble cases with special screws to prevent access to the inside and accidental shock. This works for command control layouts too, since those parked trains are still drawing some current. These can all have uses for your layout. What size Lionel transformer do I need? I suggest that you proactively lay an 10-2 AWG NM cable (or at least 12-2) along the track and tap into it as needed to keep the voltage up. Used 1033's for sidings and the switching yard its self. The typ miniature incandecents we use average about 100 ma of current each. its the amount of engines you need to worry about, I'm currently running my entire layout on a single DC power supply that came with an Athearn engine/track set. If they do, follow their recommendations. I have a basement that offers an 18" concrete ledge that goes around theentire perimeter of the house that lends itself perfectly to a neat layout. Of all the questions fielded by the staff of Classic Toy Trains, inquiries regarding layout wiring top the list.While you might expect numerous questions regarding complex techniques or new technologies, CTT. Sign up for new product releases, promotions, and more. Then the K's will do siding and switching yard duty. If you want to connect ten landscape lights to a magnetic transformer, and the lights use 30 watts each, you would need a 375 watt transformer. Different wiring projects call for different standards. Get the newest photos, videos, stories, and more from Trains.com brands. I use to use one KW for 70 feet of main line, sidings and switching yard entry track. Fortunately, there is an easy way to tell these cars apart, and the key is the numbers Lionel assigns to them. Lionel is also introducing a new 180 watt transformer to accompany the 80 watt CW 80. Just like with your track bus and feeders, running an accessory bus of slightly heavier wire to connect to each light or accessory with a smaller feeder is a good plan. This drawing illustrates all of the key functionality of a Lionel KW transformer. Used a 1033 for accessories and lights. It's expensive, but the same factors that drove KW prices down are also driving ZW prices down. If you have the proper wire size and a properly-sized circuit breaker, you should not have any problems using the old transformer. Dave, the nice thing about Lionel transformers is you can run them until the bimetallic breaker pops and then you let it cool and you are back in action (after shutting a few things down)! So far, I haven't seen any way to do this except to take amp measurements or just wing it and see how hot your transformer gets. Not wanting to give up, I experimented with an 80 watt modern Lionel transformer and got great results. To participate you must either login or register for an account. As Paul said, the power needed doesn't have anything to do with the distance; but the voltage needed does. To amplify CTvalley's very valid instructions: A forum community dedicated to model train owners and enthusiasts. Lionel Postwar 1033 Transformer Watch on Faq No: 1029 Many load and unload freight from specially designed cars as well. The choice of a control system is somewhat, but not necessarily, dependent on which manufacturers engines you prefer or have the most of. If youre comfortable doing some work yourself, you can buy a fixer-upper, and my informational links will tell you more about fixing one yourself. Smaller layouts (a typical 4 foot by 8 foot being a good example) can usually get by with Number16 since the length of the run from the power supply to the track is never more than a few feet. However, in the future if you continue in the hobby and your roster expands you may acquire motive power which requires larger curves than what came with your set. This comes primarily from the locomotive(s) but also from lights and other accessories. At an average 14 volts - this is 9x14 = 126 watts - the ZW is getting quite warm and I have not run an accessory or another train yet! The Best Technical and Innovative Podcasts you should Listen, Essay Writing Service: The Best Solution for Busy Students, 6 The Best Alternatives for WhatsApp for Android, The Best Solar Street Light Manufacturers Across the World, Ultimate packing list while travelling with your dog. You may never use all the amps, but it's usually cheaper to grow into a power supply than to continually upgrade. I covered the more common ones, but if you have another vintage Lionel transformer of more than 75 watts and its in good condition, theres no reason not to use it. The KW used to be really expensive, but since Lionel started making big transformers again, you can get a KW for what a 1033 used to cost, which makes it a very nice bargain today on a rugged and powerful transformer with an impressive presence. I thought you wanted information related to your layout not operations at a trains show. If the system's train transformer is run in Europe with a step-down transformer alone (converting only voltage from 230V to 115V AC at a 50 Hz), it may not operate as intended. Steve's rule of thumb for derating is very close to and in the same spirit as the NEC rule that an appliance may not draw more than 80 percent of the current rating of the outlet. Price Received. 10 Easy Ways to Improve a Christmas Train Display, Wiring a Model Railroad for Block Operation, How to Build and Wire Reverse Loops for Model Trains, How to Choose the Right Transformer for Your Model Trains, Compatibility of Different Model Train Brands, HO Scale Track Plans for Model Train Layouts, buildings, streets, and other scenic accessories. The larger wire is usually more expensive and more challenging to work with. Like command control, these trains still require a constant voltage to the rails. 12V DC to 120V AC 60Hz pure sine inverter. I know my train club had an issue with conventional locomotives not running properly on a layout with DCS and TMCC and apparently solved it by replacing a Lionel transformer with an MRC transformer that puts out a pure sine wave. Ive talked about why here. Many will still run on the track in your starter set, but because they are scale sized, the bodies of these cars may be slightly wider and longer than those in your set. While those locomotives and their sound systems are designed to operate using conventional transformers like your ZW, digital controllers are needed to activate additional features like special sound effects and coupler activation. This means that they are not exact 1:48 replicas of the real thing but instead are selectively compressed to negotiate the tight turns of regular Lionel track. The smallest wire you can work with will be more than sufficient. As the motor takes in more electricity, the arm turns faster and faster.